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General CDR Support Database
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The ONLY difference is the color and the branding, meaning it now says "BOSCH" instead of "Vetronix". The internal function of the module has not been changed.
Every company has a branding which includes things like a particular color associated with their products. Bosch has a "Bosch green" (not to be confused with "John Deere green"). For those who have been around a while, we've seen the interface module start out as being black plastic then blue metal, then blue metal with "CAN Plus" on the labeling. Until the change to the "CAN plus," the interface wasn't changed internally, the change from black plastic to blue metal was cosmetic. There is another cosmetic change coming. The newest kits being released by Bosch will change from blue to "Bosch green" but the internal function will not be changed.
Scott Baker
Crash Data Group
www.cdr-system.com
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CDR version 3.0 shipped in December 07. No future release dates have been announced at this time. Check back at cdr-system.com for announced released dates in the future.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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The 03003350 and 02002877 are the same cable, they have just been assigned different part numbers. The "03003350" number was assigned under an older part number system. Newer cables will similarly have different numbers under the system Bosch currently uses. For example, the OBD II cable to be used with Ford PCM downloads is part number F-OOK-108-287.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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Downloads with older versions can be opened in newer versions and the features and formatting of newer versions would be applied to the file previously downloaded. In the case of the "additional" 3 seconds of brake switch, that's additional interpretation by the CDR software of data stored but not previously interpreted. In the case of the "missing graph" it was removed but the same data remains in the data table, nothing is lost other than a formatting change long called for by users who believe - as I do - that the graph dumbed down the CDR report and end user applications.
It really sounds like the end user is out of date in his training and with the system. These are topics covered at the CDR User's Conference and in the CDR training.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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The 93 Toyota line is NOT supported by the Crash Data Retrieval System.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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There are no vehicles sold in Australia which are currently accessible using the CDR System.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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Version 3.0 of the Crash Data Retrieval System (January 08) does not provide access to Toyota or Honda vehicles.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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There are more than 12 different variants of GM airbag control modules each which are capable of capturing various data elements relating to a crash using the EDR sub component. Even, for example, for model year 07 if you include variations for example relating to some vehicle which have a RollOver Sensor and some which don't, there are several potential lists of data elements available but no ONE single, all-inclusive list.
The common data elements on GM vehicles since model year 03 include pre-crash speed, percent throttle, brake switch on-off, engine RPM, delta-V (for as little as less than 150 to approaching 300ms) as well as other status elements such as whether or not the driver's belt was sensed as buckled. Some vehicles in that model year range get significantly more data, some get those elements and a little more. The common thread is the vehicle's capabilities together with the airbag control module's capabilities rather than simply model year or vehicle line (for example, there are significant differences between an 04 Malibu and Malibu Maxx).
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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As long as the "Blue" module has "CAN plus" printed on the casing of the module, you have the most recent module in production.
Scott Baker
Crash Data Group
www.cdr-system.com
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"CDR" is the acronymn for Crash Data RETRIEVAL System. There is no CDR "IN" any passenger car, SUV or light truck.
Next, this FAQ is intended to address Crash Data Retrieval using the Bosch CDR system which is NOT set up to capture data from Cat, Mac or Detroit Diesel engine ECUs.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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No. Coverage for GM vehicles is phased in starting in the mid-90's, for Ford, it starts with model year 2001. Cars sold overseas may or may not be accessible even if that model is sold in the US.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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Maybe, maybe not. Even though a vehicle may be sold in both the US and UAE, the VIN structure may be one factor in limiting access using the CDR system. Another limiting consideration is the specific module's software ID. You cannot assume a model sold in the US and sold overseas using the same name would be accessible "everywhere."
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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That depends on the method of download (ie: desktop or DLC) and whether or not you need a USB to Serial adapter and its cable(s). In either case, the cable numbers for access to any model of supported vehicle are found in the CDR Help file and reflect cables that should be available for your licensed copy of the CDR software.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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Update the firmware is the same as reprogramming the interface. Do this by first connecting the CDR interface to your laptop via either a serial port ,or a USB port with a USB to serial adaptor in between the laptop and the CDR interface. Then click on the "Special" tab on the top menu bar and select the "Program Interface" pick.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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The Bosch CDR System software runs on a Windows-based operating system and is supported using Windows 2000, Windows XP (Home and Pro), and Windows Vista (beginning with software version 3.1). You will also need either a dedicated serial port or USB port for the CDR Interface Module to run.
Scott Baker
Crash Data Group
www.cdr-system.com
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The subscription offered through Bosch is a software only subscription and does not include hardware updates. Due to the varying costs of cable manufacturing and the unknown of when and what cables will be available with newly supported vehicles, Bosch can't offer hardware on a subscription basis.
Scott Baker
Crash Data Group
www.cdr-system.com
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The current 02002829 cable being shipped does NOT have a yellow casing.
Scott Baker
Crash Data Group
www.cdr-system.com
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There is a web based version of a Vehicle Specification Database on the ARC Network web site. It is located in the "Member's Only" section, so you would need to be a member of the ARC Network to access it. There are "client" versions of a vehicle specifications database available for download to install on your local computer. You would need to Google to find it.
ARC Network is located at: www.accidentreconstruction.com
Scott Baker
Crash Data Group
www.cdr-system.com
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Without doing an inventory of what you have currently in your kit, we can't provide an accurate assessment of what you need. Please download the CDR Hardware Checklist that is found on our web site and run an inventory check on your current kit. Then, let us know the hardware you are missing and we will email you an estimate. The checklist is located at: www.cdr-system.com/catalog/CDRKITChecklist.pdf
Scott Baker
Crash Data Group
www.cdr-system.com
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There is simply insufficient information here to address the problem. Please call Bosch Technical Support.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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The question assumes the data, modules or some combination CAN be "reset." That wouldn't necessarily - for the modules accessible with the Bosch CDR System - be a reasonable assumption.
While there is some evidence certain modules can be made to "fuction" again after a deployment, that condition (a) is not something that can be done with the CDR System and (b) isn't the case with all the modules found in light trucks, SUVs and passenger cars.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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"CDR" stands for Crash Data Retrieval (System) which is the system used to access data which may be found in passenger cars, light trucks and SUVs. There is no "CDR" in those vehicles.
The Bosch CDR System does not access data which may be found in Mercedes vehicles.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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Transplanting one or more chips (i.e. the EEPROM) from one modue to the next is only part of the potential solution. It may well work with the same or similar module and then again it may not. This is an advanced technique that should not be undertaken lightly and then really only when following a protocol that ensures the image of the data you're getting from the transplanted chip isn't "confused" with the data which would be in the "donor" module.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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Surely some manufacturers may have data which may be stored in modules not currrently supported by the CDR system. Contacting that manufacturer directly may yield some results; however, understand that most manufacturers have declined assistance unless they're involved in the litigation at hand and, sometimes, to help a police or other government agency.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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There is no way to address in the limited space here all the possible variations between Ford, Chrysler and GM vehicles not to mention betweeen each of those OE variations by model year or vehicle capability. These are topics covered directly in more detail in the Bosch approved CDR Technician and CDR Data Analyst courses where we have the time and example reports available to address these concepts/the nuanes of the various systems. See: www.collisionsafety.net/courses for details on those course offerings.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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This question is difficult to answer on a number of levels. First, there is no "CDR" in a car to "engage." "CDR" stands for "Crash Data RETRIEVAL System" - not a car part and, therefore, not something that might "engage" in a crash. Next, depending on various characteristics of the airbag control module which might be found on a given vehicle, the status of the driver belt buckle latch plate presence sensor and, in some instances, that of the right front passenger, is typically observed "on change." Meaning, if the belt is buckled when the car's started up then, right before a crash, the belt is UNbukled (or vice versa), that changed status is the "current status" which might be recorded as the condition of the belt buckle switch circuit "at the time of the crash."
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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The Bosch CDR system cannot be used on a Honda. The CDR System can currently be used for access to Ford, GM and Chrysler vehicles only (version 3.2). Honda may or may not have a system that would be accessible using a system they, the OE, would have. The Crash Data group sells the Bosch CDR system and system pricing is found at http://www.cdr-system.com/ but e'll let someone know to call you.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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There are no stand alone "user's manuals" for the CDR program. There is (a) the Help file which is part of the program itself and is viewed from within the program and (b) course materials for the CDR Technician and Analyst courses. Notably, v2.900 is long out of date. If someone did a download in v2.9 and has since reopened the CDR file in ver 3.2 (the current version), for example, the contents of v2.9 are largely irrelevant since the translation of the data recovered using v2.9 would be done in v3.2.
The CDR Help file and Data Limitations text specifically call for a downloaded data file to be opened and reviewed in the context of the latest version (which is now v3.2) so having the v2.9 software to look at that Help file for some purpose wouldn't be terribly meaningful if someone is properly reviewing the data in v3.2.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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First, one should nomally check the current component checklist at http://www.cdr-system.com/catalog/CDRKITChecklist.pdf for an inventory list. With that in mind, the cable you're asking about is NOT listed there so one of two things has happened: (a) it's been replaced by a newer version of that cable or (b) it's been discontinued.
One clue is the 0300 prefix which generally meant a system cable not an OE specific cable (i.e.: the 02002829 cable would be a GM module type specific cable and the 03001070 cable would be an external DC power cable).
Since the 03003350 cable is not listed, it's probably best to call Bosch tech support or customer service directly and see if they have a listed replacement cable.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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The starter kit would get you data from supported cars at most crash scenes assuming you wanted to take the time to get the car repowered or that it could be repowered in the first place. The starter kit includes the hardware and software to do in-car downloads. the expanded kits give you access to the modules directly which, while some would contend is required more often, may be unnecessary in many cases.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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The warning message must say more than that. Dialog boxes whether generated by Windows or the CDR program give more detail and may indicate a solution. It "sounds like" you haven't installed a COM port or there's not one on your computer. You should reinstall CDR and watch for options to install the Bosch USB to RS232 (serial) port adapter. In the alternative, you mayhave to buy a suitable adapter on your own.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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As it relates to CDR data, whether the impact is to the front or the side of a vehicle, the CDR gathered data is just as valid. Meaning, whether it's a front or side impact, doesn't change the data that;'s recovered or its reliability. It still needs to be evaluated in the context of the crash but "where" the crash comes from doesn't change the data. So, to that end, research showing validity of the data as such is what you would be looking for not specifying whether or not it's to a specific side or end.
Having said that, side impact sensors relate to the deployment of side bags and again don't relate to validity of the remaining crash data which may be recovered BUT, having said that, NOT having side sensing (in the context of accelerometers not simply "yes/no" sensing) means there's not likely a lot of side impact related/specific data to be recovered but that, again, doesn't make the remaining data "invalid" in the context of the crash being evaluated.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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This is another example of "words mean things." What "EDR" are we talking about and in what way is he saying it can be "erased." For that truck, depending on the VIN and other variables, the only module that has accessible data is the PCM. Data in the PCM is not "erased" but, in the right circumstances, may be overwritten. Again, depending on circumstances, the other expert may have intentionally or accidentially "overwritten" data that may have been present at the time of the event.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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First, in this technology, words mean things: there are deployments and non-deployments. The word "deployable" ("able" as in "might" perhaps?) really doesn't have a meaning or application.
Having said that, the 01 F250 has an airbag control module that can be downloaded and may store non-deployment event data but there is no guarantee that, for a given event, it recorded any event related data or that such event data is still present in that module.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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It depends on many factors including configuration and whether or not there was a deployment. There isn't a "you get ___ and ___" answer.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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The problem is as noted in the previous links "because the MSComm32.ocx control uses the "return quickly" feature of the Windows COM port driver. The redirected port implementation sets the status to pending. This setting affects the functionality of the MSComm32.ocx control." It's a problem related to your system and the selected COM port and or COM port emulator (USB to Serial device). Start there for tech support. If you're using the Bosch USB to serial adapter, it IS compatible with Vista 64bit but the error message you're getting, as previously noted, is not wit CDR rather in your system configuration.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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Perhaps. The most likely culprit is a power interruption leading to a power disruption before the data was recorded but, on that vehicle, such a complete power disruption *completely* eliminating *any* data from being recorded. You wrote, the "CDR stated..." What does that mean, specifically? Was there a file recovered that read: "events=none?" Did it error out and indicate "unable to retrieve..." Was there an error message along the lines of "no communication..." The specifics of the result (dialog box or file and report) are key to troubleshooting. Another possibility is that there was no deployment and the bags being "out" was a function of someone cutting them loose rather than an actual deployment. An inspection of the bag cover can often lead to a conclusion in that regard.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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At the same place where you found this FAQ, you will find this link: http://www.cdr-system.com/resources/coverage.html which is the current "Crash Data Retrieval Vehicle Coverage List." It indicates that the Bosch system covers Ford, GM and Chrysler vehicles. While there is, for example, Saab coverage under the heading "GM," lines like Opel and, at this point, Holden, are not supported.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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Toyota vehicles are not accessible using the Boach CDR systema t this time.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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Q: I was wondering if it is standard practice to try to retrieve event data recorders (EDRs) from vehicles equipped with them after fatal crashes, as far as most police departments go?
A: There is no simple answer here, "most police departments" is too broad and there are too many varying laws, policies and departmental processes/procedures to recount them all here.
Q: What kinds of situations warrant the inspection of information from an EDR?
A: Crashes involving passenger cars, light trucks and SUVs.
Q: Is there some kind of special equipment that is needed to remove the EDR or EDRs from a vehicle?
A: There is no such thing as a stand-alone "EDR" installed by an OE in the context of the information available on this site and relating to the Bosch Crash Data Retrieval System. One would not "remove" an EDR. One may remove the safety device control device in which there may be a conditionally functional EDR subcomponent or subsystem but then that would render the safety device (i.e.: air bag) inoperable.
Q: How long does it usually take to process this kind of data once a request is made?
A: Depending on the complexity of the crash, the process includes imaging the data from the relevant control module, then comparing it to a crash analysis of varying complexity and detail which, by itself, can take weeks.
Q: What is used to process or remove the data from an EDR (specialized computer program or equipment)?
A: Review the remainder of this web site where the Bosch Crash Data Retrieval System is sold and you will find the various components of the Bosch CDR system which, together with pretty much any laptop or desktop computer, will run the CD software.
Q: How accurate is data from an EDR?
A: First, in the context of OE installed devices and those which are accessible using the Bosch CDR system, an EDR subcomponent is not a stand alone device; it is a storage process for the data generated largely in other components or sensors and then relayed to the relevant control unit which then stores - when and if the EDR functionality is engaged - that data for later retrieval. So, asking "is data from an EDR accurate" is like asking "if I save something I typed in Word on my computer to my hard drive and then to a thumb drive, would the thumb drive accurately save the data?" Experientially, we can each answer that question. The question you probably mean to ask is: "how accurate is the underlying data which is ultimately stored by the EDR functionality?" The answer to that is "for the most part, depending on how one understands the difference between 'accurate' and 'precise' and then within a larger appreciation for what is and is not stored, the data that can be recovered is generally very accurate."
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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On those vehicles accessible by thge CDR system, they key has to be ON for the airbag control module to be able to deploy an airbag. Some older Fords would deploy bags with they key off, but not anything in the range of vehicles which are CDR accessible.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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It sounds like you just copied the files from one computer to another rather than running an installation. If your license for the software allows for multiple installations, you should copy the contents of the installation CD to the thumb drive and install from that drive or from a folder where you copied those contents to the netbook. Missing or improperly registered files are normally a function of incomplete or improper installations.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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Not exactly. The slide reads:
"The CDR data analysis
Analysis takes into account the available information toward an analysis including…
Information about the humans, the vehicles and the environment,
Will normally require at least an analysis of the vehicle dynamics and
Many times an evaluation of the physical evidence supporting the analysis of those dynamics
It may require a detailed mechanical inspection"
The course material then goes on to talk about "A 'situationally complete' crash analysis may be based on…"
What's a "complete reconstuction?" Wouldn't each crash be different, present different available information to work with? lacking a clear definition of a "complete" reconstruction, really, we have to take data recovered using the CD system as part of the information we have to work with in light of the crash facts and information available.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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A non-deoployment file created as a function of a side impact is not uncommon. This is NOT related to a power interruption. The SDM in that vehicle offers information about the frontal bags not side bags so a side bag deployment can occur but the frontal "event" recognized could easily be a non-deployment.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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Refer to the presentation from the CDR User's Summit in houston in January by Sean Haight for details but there is no specific time, "dry is dry." Once it's dry inside and you initiate a download and it is successful, it was "dry enough." If it's still "too wet" it simply won't communicate.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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Actually, that question is NOT so simple. Depending on the type of vehicle you're asking about there may be more than one "brake switch" referenced in a CDR report. Generally speaking; however, an indication of "brake switch = 'off'" - assuming it is actually a monitored parameter - means the switch isn't closed, not whether ornot there was braking or the brakes were "applied."
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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The current version is 3.4 and should be installed after UNinstalling other pervious versions. Uninstalling the program doesn't delete previously imaged crash data; however, to be sure, you should always backup CDR files in a second location.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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The Bosch Crash Data RETRIEVAL system does NOT "reset" airbag CONTROL modules. Moreover, except where an airbag control module may be useed for more than one deployment event, the OE service manuals call for the module to be replaced with a new one. Replacing an airbag conrtol module with a used part and one with questionable "resetting" may make that module unreliable in the event of a future crash event. Reusing airbag control modules is NOT recommended.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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No, it is not. What you're proposing is called "VIN Spoofing" and it is specifically NOT a supported process and is strongly discouraged. Assuming that you DO actually get the CDR program to communicate with the otherwise UNsupported module, you CANNOT be sure any recovered data is translated correctly. Part of the proper translation process often includes a reliance on the VIN and "spoofing"a VIN may result in data being incorrectly translated.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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"CDR" is the system - the Crash Data Retrieval system - used to access data which may be stored in airbag control modules, rollover sensors and powertrain control modules depending on the OE. There is no "CDR" in a car, SUV or light truck. The Bosch CDR system does not access data in Infiniti vehicles (at least at this time) but you may want to have a lawyer client or prosecutor you're working with inquire of their corporate office about data stored in one of those modules. However, askng them if there's data in a "CDR" in that car will likely result in a response "we don't have 'CDRs' in our vehicles" which is an entirely correct response but may not. answer the question you're really trying to ask.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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The current version of CDR is version 3.5 (just released this week, 7/10). One can print the Help file vehicle coverage list and get the currrent list of accessaible vehicles. No one should be using version 2.8 at this point, it is very much out of date. If you have a question as to whether "vehicle"x" was accessible using version 2.8, back in 2006 when that was the current version, opening a copy of version 2.8 and printing the accessible vehicle list there would address that narrow point; however, today, that coverage is irrelevant. For example, Chrysler and additional Ford vehicles were introduced in version 3.0 in 2007 and they would not have been listed in version 2.8 but are listed as accessible today. So, if someone is using 2.8 today and you're concerned as to whether or not that version will access a specific vehicle, really, the greater concern is the fact that someone using that old a version is seriously out of date with the technology.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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Yes.
Here is a direct link to the driver installer for the USB Adapter for Windows 98SE / ME / 2000 / XP (32 and 64bit) / Server 2003 / Vista (32 and 64bit) / Vista64 / Server 2008 / Windows 7 (32 and 64bit)
http://sewelldirect.com/download/Drivers/SW-1301_v1.2.1.zip
Scott Baker
Crash Data Group
www.cdr-system.com
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All adapters can be found at: http://www.cdr-system.com/catalog/adapters.html
Scott Baker
Crash Data Group
www.cdr-system.com
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The Crash Data Retrieval System accesses data in select modules found on certain vehicles. The data that is stored is selected by the OE (and later the government), not the CDR system. At this time, no known system and none accessible by the CDR system store any date or time information at all.
Rusty Haight
Collision Safety Institute
www.collisionsafety.net
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